And that is exactly what should happen.

If a single swarmed can still kill a double hardened tank, hardeners have absolutely no point in existing. It should take multiple people to kill a hardened tank. The problem is how quickly they can escape once it wears off. Tone down tank speed and greatly tone down tank acceleration, and we will finally have tanks in a close to balanced place.

Why should it take multiple people to kill a double hardened tank? It was already hard before, unless the tanker was certifiably ********, but the way hardeners combine with reps and armor hp makes it literally impossible now to kill a madruger until their hardeners go down. Why is that ok? Maybe if infantry had modules that boosted their damage so they could overcome the hardeners, it would be fine, but they dont. There is no AV/V balance when you can simply choose to negate AV completely when you fit your tank. Its not even a matter of tactics or ambush, its just straight up impossible for a single person to kill a tank fitted with 2 repairs and 2 hardeners unless the tanker just does not react.

Could you imagine how absurd it would be if infantry had fits like that? Heavies walking around, literally invincible to every weapon on the field, unkillable until their hardeners went down, is that something you are ok with? If not, then why is it ok for tanks?

Listen, where do all tanks go when hardeners are down? How long does it take them to go there?

Here are the answers.

1. Redline
2. maybe 20 seconds.

Well I've said this before but here is what I envision with Armor Repairers becoming active modules and shield boosters having a slightly higher HP/minute.

Natural Armor Rep (~30 HP/s) (Constant, very slow, Supplementary HP regeneration)
Natural Shield Recharge (~120 HP/s) (Delayed, slow, Supplementary HP regeneration)

Active Armor Repairer (Moderate Duration, Moderate Rate, Primary HP regeneration)
Active Shield Booster (Short Duration, High Rate, Primary HP regeneration)

The recharge delay is of course a factor, but is the tradeoff for a much higher natural rate. Even so in both cases that is simply supplementary regen. Currently Shield Boosters are so terribad that shield pretty much has to rely on natural recharge....which I think will remain nearly impossible properly balance against armor repairers, ESPECIALLY Heavy Passive ones.

Most of this **** started when CCP Blam moved us to the "Passive Regeneration is Primary Regeneration" model and it has been a mess ever since. Passive regeneration is fine if it is limited to supplementary regen, but the primary regen moves back to the Active model.

NOTE: I think that currently, the issue with armor repairers lies in the HEAVY ones. I don't think the Light ones are problematic so those can probably be left as is, as not to totally mess up Dropships and LAVs for the sake of HAV balance.

As for balancing within the system we already have....I think Rattati is willing to be aggressive in change if it is absolutely necessary. However if he can reach a balanced state by making few changes, he's going to be more likely to go that direction with it. Manpower is very limited on the Dust Dev side so he has to make very tough choices on how things are done, and if he can get the desired result (of balance) with less work, he's going to take that direction with it.

Wouldn't you think it would be unbalanced that if sentinels had hardeners and they put two of them on their fit and can be shot at by 5 assaults using proto weapons and sentinel HP doesn't even go down at all until their 40 seconds of hardening us up?

Wouldn't you think it would be unbalanced that if sentinels had hardeners and they put two of them on their fit and can be shot at by 5 assaults using proto weapons and sentinel HP doesn't even go down at all until their 40 seconds of hardening us up?

I don't care what you have to say because no way in hell should armor tanks be invincible to AV. Shield tanks and AV are balanced in my opinion. Armor tanks are definitely not balanced. How is it fair that an armor tank can take 2-3 clips (Clips not swarms) from my Proto Min Commando with proficiency level 4 in swarms and still have full armor?

Its hardeners combined with passive heavy repair modules. The hardeners boost the EHP of the tank quite a bit (x4 for double hardener I think?) which has the side effect of magnifying repair module strength by the same amount, this ends up allowing you to outrep a ludicrous amount of damage just by flipping a switch. This isnt a problem in the gunnlogi since the reps can generally be stopped by damage, but on the madruger the reps just keep going regardless, which results in massive imbalance.

Give shields 1.7 hardeners and it's fair :/

Cause that's what it looks like we should do... Knowing aHardeners are back to 1.7 level :/

Are you aware that this game is unbalanced?